A climate conversation with Gina McCarthy

Q&A

John Mandyck: You helped shape our national climate policy when it was needed most. Is there a moment or two that particularly stands out for you – from your time in the White House – maybe a particular revelation, an inspiration, or a breakthrough that’s still vivid today?

Gina McCarthy: I’ll take it back one step before the White House. It was the beginning of the new administration and COVID was inundating, devastating our economy, our health, and our livelihoods. The thing that pops up the most to me, John, is not what happened when I joined the administration, but it was a phone call President Biden made to me to convince me to join because frankly, I didn’t want to do it.

NRDC was the first job I ever had that paid more than a couple of hundred thousand. And all of a sudden, the economy caves, COVID’s out, everybody’s gone home, and I’m sitting at home going, what do I do now? And so when he called me, his framing of this issue was really interesting he knew I was in it for climate. That’s what I was doing with my life. But, he said, “Gina, we have to rebuild the economy. We have to grow jobs. We have to clean the air and make it healthy for people. And we need to sit down and talk about how we do that by investing in people.” He said, “I really need to have you to start framing that out.”

And that was what my life ended up being. And what still is really engaging me on this is that he realized that if you took over a presidency at that point in time, and you started talking about climate as a burden – climate as a moment of sacrifice – you could call it a day, go home, and no one would ever miss you, right?

It had to be [that] we have the opportunity of a lifetime to rebuild our economy. When that framing came up, that was the beginning of how we would fashion the Inflation Reduction Act. And that was how it ended up. It was an investment strategy in human beings again – a way to build communities, especially the communities that had been left behind, and to grow good jobs and make the United States hum again economically. And I’ll be damned, it worked. I guess he was smarter than I ever gave him credit for.

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John Mandyck: You’ve certainly been on the front lines of climate change. How do you assess the state of decarbonization today? Let’s start in the U.S. and then, are you optimistic? Are you concerned?

Gina McCarthy: I will readily admit that I am an optimistic person from day one because I don’t know what the alternative is, frankly. I can’t stand people who go around going, “woah, me? I didn’t make this. I didn’t do that!” You know, I just totally ignore those people.

I feel really good right now about what’s happening in the United States. I mean, we’re talking about you know, a billion dollars of private sector investment, 330,000 new clean energy jobs. We’re talking about 646 projects that are already making progress. So all of that just says to me that we had a void [and] it’s getting filled.

I think people are feeling the energy and excitement. That’s what the Inflation Reduction Act was supposed to be and we’re just in our first couple of years of a 10-year horizon. And already we are seeing folks wanting to do more. And I’m all for that. I think in the US we’re doing pretty well. And in fact, if you look at folks in Canada, in the EU, and across the international community, they’re all envious of what we did with the Inflation Reduction Act in particular. And they want to figure out the same kind of strategy where they are. But, there are significant challenges internationally. Especially challenges to get the kind of investment we need in the global south. Because everybody needs to see their boats rise and it remains very challenging to figure out how to do that with some of the debt that’s been accrued in those countries and the challenges that we have facing us.

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John Mandyck: What surprised you the most in the fight for climate progress?

Gina McCarthy: That it worked. Maybe the most surprising thing to me was that underneath all the rancor between Democrats and Republicans during the past, I don’t know, eight years or so, which is new to me because frankly, I’ve been in government for a really long time. And like 40 some-odd years, and I always found a way to bridge the gap between Republicans and Democrats. There was a place for it.

And so I think one of the things that really I’ve found intriguing is that as the Inflation Reduction Act money has been expended, at least some portions of it, we realize that the Republican jurisdictions in districts have received the vast majority of the money. Now that shouldn’t surprise anybody, we designed it that way. Shh. But it also was because those are the areas that were most devastated by manufacturing loss. We needed to rebuild our manufacturing sector. And so what surprised me is that Republicans are both recognizing that they have to get away from this rancor and this lack of communication because they’re seeing their communities being invested in.

And we’re seeing letters being signed by lots of Republicans saying, no matter what happens in the next election, we are going to stick with the Inflation Reduction Act. And I think that makes sense from them as politicians. That’s their communities and you can’t walk away from great investment opportunities. But it’s maybe just some kind of a sign that we’re gonna go back to a democracy again. You know, where we can hang out with each other and disagree but not be so disagreeable.

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John Mandyck: If you had the power to change one thing, anywhere, anyhow, to accelerate climate progress, what would it be?

Gina McCarthy: I would change the narrative. The thing that I keep bothering people about is that in my world, people love to talk about greenhouse gas emissions. People don’t care about greenhouse gas emissions. I’m not saying that negatively, like they’re not smart enough to care about it, but they care about their families. They care about their health, their future for their grandchildren, like my five little grandchildren. That’s all I care about. Other than Maggie, of course, and her brother and sister.

The thing that I would change is the narrative. I really would try to personalize this issue a lot more to talk about the human benefits from looking at the opportunities we have today to change the climate paradigm. And to show people that this is the world we want to build for our kids and our families. I want it to be personal. I want people to stop talking about greenhouse gas emissions and really talk about our world, our kids, our families, and how we can make this the best future ever for them.

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John Mandyck: People who know you know that you have a Boston wicked sense of humor. Is there a particular time that stands out as especially funny for you, either in the Obama or Biden administrations or both?

Gina McCarthy: There was a point in time where I went to congressional hearings every friggin’ week. It was endless. They just wanted to torture me. And I learned that the only way to deal with it was to not argue with anything. You just answer the questions, then you’d get battered and all through the battering, I’d just go, hmm. A little smile, like yes, I acknowledge what you’re saying.

One hearing I was at, I was sitting at the table, and the way this works in Congress is you’re facing them. And I was answering a question, and all of a sudden, everybody started giggling and laughing. And I’m like, did I fart or something? What happened? So they’re giggling and giggling and giggling. And I’m like, my God, what is it? And we got through that period of time, we left.

And I never knew until the next morning. On the front of the New York Times, there was a picture of me sitting at that table, Lara Vought behind me, and all of the audience were young people with tin hats on made out of aluminum foil. It was only funny because I realized what a moron I must have looked like with them behind me.

I have never figured this out. I feel like finding out who they were and why they were wearing that. What did it mean?

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John Mandyck: This is an amazing room of climate warriors. You’ve met most of them tonight, many of them, and you’ll meet some more. What advice do you have for us all?

Gina McCarthy: My advice is to keep doing exactly what you’re doing. I’ve been enormously impressed with the work that is going on, not just by Urban Green, which is terrific, but across the agencies and organizations and NGOs that are working so hard on this.

Honestly, the thing that really ticked me off when I was in Connecticut is New York was always 10 steps ahead. And it’s a gift.

My interest is figuring out how we can really share your knowledge and expertise and enthusiasm and the gravitas that you’re really bringing to these issues and expedite that throughout our country and frankly throughout the world. Because now is the time to move. Now is the only time we have available to us to actually make climate change stop in its tracks and make humanity be the benefit of that. So thank you for everything you’re doing and thank Urban Green for allowing me to be here.