Published March 23, 2021
Listen to or watch the eighth episode of Urban Green Live. Hosted by Urban Green Council CEO John Mandyck, this live interview series features international industry experts to answer your questions about a low carbon future.
On March 23, 2021, Steve Nadel, Executive Director of ACEEE, joined John to discuss the future of federal policy for building retrofits and energy efficiency, and how these items could be affected by political shifts in Washington, D.C.
Key Takeaways
ACEEE is a nonprofit organization that conducts research and provides recommendations for federal policies.
-> They engage with federal agencies and congressional offices to influence policy based on their research findings.
-> Their reports analyze past programs and suggest future actions based on empirical data.
There’s a growing need for clear standards and definitions around net zero, balancing the use of offsets versus actual zero energy performance.
-> Achieving net zero energy buildings requires early-stage design considerations, emphasizing the need to build or renovate with net zero as a target from the outset.
-> Retrofitting existing buildings to net zero standards is more challenging, but focusing on high efficiency and zero-ready performance can significantly contribute to overall energy goals.
The federal government primarily encourages and assists states and localities with energy efficiency initiatives through funding, advice, and technical assistance.
-> The federal government has the potential to regulate building standards, practical and constitutional limitations mean they focus more on funding and supporting state and local regulations.
Speakers
John Mandyck
Chief Executive Officer
Steve Nadel
Executive Director American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy
Q&A
John Mandyck: How likely and useful is a carbon tax?
Steve Nadel: I don’t see it happening this year. There is discussion and I think it eventually will happen because there is bipartisan support for it, but getting the 60 votes in the Senate will be challenging.
I think it is useful, but not the only thing we need to do. It is useful because it improves the economics of things to reduce greenhouse gasses. Whoever’s done the carbon tax has had some impact, but not nearly enough to reach the Paris targets. It has to be complemented with other policies and programs.
John Mandyck: There is a lot of excitement about high speed rail development. Do you think this is more than a pipe dream? Is there a role for high speed rail here as we try to get to net zero?
Steve Nadel: I think there definitely is a role for traveling hundreds of miles as opposed to thousands of miles. It’s easier, more comfortable, and can be just as quick. The catch is it tends to be expensive. California has had challenges building their system and it’s not going to be easy, but Europe has expanded their systems enormously. We could do it, but it might take a while.
John Mandyck: How do we align energy efficiency with environmental justice, especially in cities?
Steve Nadel: We need to ensure that our energy efficiency efforts serve all customers. It’s especially important for low-moderate income individuals and people of color, who have been disproportionately underserved in the past. In New York state, I think it’s either 30 or 40% of all their system benefit charge spending needs to be on environmental justice communities. I think we really need to make sure that happens throughout the country.
We need to work with community groups in each of those areas to figure out how best to spend that money to really make a difference for those communities.
John Mandyck: Can you be more specific on the types of technicians you see coming up in the new labor force?
Steve Nadel: Some of it is residential HVAC technicians, commercial controls technicians, installers, and also debuggers. Increasingly, equipment is computer driven and you need people to be able to understand that, debug that, and get that equipment functioning properly. I think if anything, controls is gonna be a key area.
John Mandyck: Do you see Department of Labor funding coming down to do that type of job training?
Steve Nadel: I think there will be some funding for that. Some of this money is going to go to states and cities to do local programs. I expect a lot of funding will come from the New York City Department of Labor, as opposed to the US Department of Labor.
John Mandyck: Would a climate job corp be useful? Similar to the Peace Corps, but a climate job corp. Have you heard people speak about motivating programs like that?
Steve Nadel: I’ve heard of it. I think a potential could be useful. However, these types of job corps are only useful to the extent there are jobs at the other end. My preference is for more local programs that work with the employers to give the training, rather than a national program.
John Mandyck: What do you view as the most promising avenues for financing energy efficiency? What are the biggest needs, sources, models, strategies?
Steve Nadel: I think we need creative financing that’s easy for people to use. I like on-bill finance because you have the credit history and you have an easy way to pay it. I see PACE as promising, but creative financing I think will be very important. There are proposals for a national green bank and they could help fund more local efforts, but ultimately it comes down to the local.
John Mandyck: What’s the best way to frame climate policy politically? Are there certain subjects that are seen as more bipartisan?
Steve Nadel: International competitiveness is important. We need to do the best job we can, so we are competitive in these international markets. It will serve us, but also help us sell overseas. In turn that creates jobs which is another critical path. For getting bipartisan support you need to tie it to things that people, regardless of party, care about.
John Mandyck: Would there be measures to support the recovery and growth of public transportation, maybe even in the infrastructure type bill that we see coming?
Steve Nadel: I expect there will be a transportation bill, it may be part of the broader Build Back Better infrastructure, or may be separate. It definitely will have a large public transit component to it. The House last year passed a bill with quite a few provisions on that. The Senate was much more parsimonious about what they would do for public transit. Time will tell where that meeting point is between those two positions.
John Mandyck: Does the GSA benchmark energy use in buildings, and do they have plans for large building stock to get to net zero?
Steve Nadel: I think they generally do have some benchmarking. They’ve done a variety of net zero projects. I don’t think they have systematic plans. Certainly for the last four years, they were not encouraged to do so, but hopefully in the coming years, there will be much more of an incentive and pressure on them to.
John Mandyck: As we decarbonize our buildings and stop using gas for heating and utilities, the oil and gas industries are at risk for large amounts of stranded assets. What can be done to mitigate this, and who should pay for it?
Steve Nadel: The oil companies, they see the writing on the wall to some extent. They’re starting a new transition, varying from company to company, so I’m not too worried about the majors, if you will.
For natural gas utilities though, they have these investments that they’ve made. They’re expecting at least another 30 years of life. I think we’re gonna have to help them depreciate those on an accelerated basis.
John Mandyck: What role can FEMA play to help homes and trailers that they provide get to net zero?
Steve Nadel: FEMA should pay attention to energy efficiency, particularly in the more permanent homes as opposed to temporary trailers. They should also be looking to help people rebuild in an efficient way. There’s some changes to the law that are helping that, but we need to keep moving in that direction.
John Mandyck: If we went all electric, would the grid be able to handle the energy we need? Do we need building efficiency to reach the carbon neutral grid?
Steve Nadel: Efficiency is going to be essential. It’s going to be very hard and very expensive to build enough generation so that during a polar vortex, we can be heating all these inefficient buildings. We need to really drive the loads down through energy efficiency. We need cold climate heat pumps to maximize efficiency on those cold days. Also, in cold climates, we’re going to need some type of backup system.
John Mandyck: What do you see as the federal government’s role to jumpstart the renewable industry (ex. Offshore wind)?
Steve Nadel: The offshore wind industry seems to be doing pretty well to me. That includes federal tax incentives, and we need to keep those coming. A lot of states are doing a lot to further that and we should encourage that to continue. Obviously we have this first plant off of Cape Cod, it’s starting to get its approvals. We need to start putting more projects in the ground, and learn from it and improve that. We’re on a good path, but yes, federal incentives will be part of that as well as all these state efforts.
John Mandyck: How concerned are you about refrigerant leakage as we deploy heat pumps at scale?
Steve Nadel: We need good technicians that can install systems so that they are lower leaks. We need refrigerants that are much safer to the environment than the old refrigerant.
John Mandyck: Do you see embodied carbon being integrated into codes or building design standards?
Steve Nadel: Yes, but gradually. We first need to identify the key metrics and the key data. Based on that, we’re going to learn a lot. Then gradually, I think there will be some type of building code requirements. I see getting embodied energy widespread into codes would be after 2030.
John Mandyck: What do you see as the future for nuclear?
Steve Nadel: I think existing nuclear plants, particularly those with two or more units, they’ll try to extend their life. Individual plants will likely be retired. There will be a lot of research on much smaller modular reactors. If they can come in at a cost effective price, I do see some of them being built. It’s very unclear whether they can truly come in at a price.
John Mandyck: You wrote a blog about changes in the development process for the IECC. What is your opinion about that process and what we should be watching in future revisions?
Steve Nadel: We were concerned that the change to the process will not help to advance codes the way they need to in order to decarbonize. The new process will be a committee and anything has to have two thirds vote. A lot of it is gonna be who’s on the committee and can you get anything done with that two thirds vote or not?
They’re accepting nominations now; I’d encourage your members to think about applying because we need to get good people on those committees so that something happens.
There’s also discussion about if the IECC process doesn’t work going forward, do we need to move the lead on codes to some other organization?
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